A UU who agrees with my critique. . .
ms.squiggle said...
Hi Emerson Avenger,
I completely agree with you in terms of the fundamentalist Atheism that takes place within UU. That's why we have been so hesitant about joining. (We've been involved with the church off and on for 4 years and just recently decided to join.)
Read the rest of what ms. squiggle said here -
http://mysticsquiggle.blogspot.com/2005/11/christian-philosophies-and-belief-in.html#comments
Here is what I posted to her blog -
Perhaps UU Christians, to say nothing of other UU theists of various sorts, should get together and DO something about the intolerant and outright bigoted fundamentalist atheists in oUUr midst. . .
There is clearly a split in the the way theists and fundamentalist atheists come at UU-anity as it were. . . The two groups, seem quite unable to reconcile their differences. Intolerant fundamentalist atheists tend to believe there is only one way to believe in God - their way. . .
Theists of all kinds hold *some* beliefs that are philosophically in line with those professed by atheists but evidently not when it comes to the question of God.
: (I've actually known Catholic Priests who claim they are not theists, and are therefore technically a-theists.)
And thus technically frauds. . .
I fully expect that a certain percentage of the clergy in all religions are closeted atheists. I think they should display some integrity and get out of the closet and out of the "church". UUism is one of he few "religions" where outspoken fundamentalist atheists can be out of the closet and in the "church" to say nothing of preside over the "church". . .
:Or like the Greek Orthodox thinking, they may consider all of nature to be divine and God to be completely unknowable.
God is actually very "knowable" and can in fact be "known" to a considerable degree via purely rational thought. Rational contemplation of readily observable reality leads to considerable knowledge of "Nature's God". . .
: Or like the early Roman Catholic Church, they may think God is completely knowable through Jesus.
Even Jesus claimed not to know everything "the Father" knows. Jesus never said anything about this for example. . .
: You have to explain what you mean by your belief in God.
I was trying to once but a certain unmentionable minister of the fundamentalist atheist "Humanist" UU variety contemptuously dismissed my beliefs about God as being nothing but "silliness and fantasy". He preached Sunday sermons declaring that God is a "non-existant being" and that belief in God "seems primitive". . . He quite literally wrote off most religious rituals as being "meaningless".
So how are 1.2 hundred thousand or so UUs supposed to unify all of their differing ideas in order to do something about the bigoted fundamentalist atheist UUs in their midst? Should not ALL God believing UUs, and indeed ALL genuinely "humanist" atheist UUs. . . actually DO something about atheistic fundamentalism which is a philosophy that cuts down ALL religions?
: Anywhere there is a group of people claiming that they hold the only right ideas about God (including ideas against the idea of God), there is fundamentalism.
Amen to that!
: It's just plain old self-righteousness and that shows up everywhere! It's a part of humanity, not just religion.
Amen again. Fundamentalist atheism certainly shows up all over the place within UUism. . .
: If you want something done, then do something.
I'm doing more than my fair share. . . Unfortunately most of the other UUs I know prefer to do nothing. . . What are you going to DO about "it" pray tell?
: Quit telling other people it's up to them, because it's not.
I strongly disagree. Actually other UUs do have a moral and ethical responsibility to respond in genuine responsibility to the internal injustices and abuses that are perpetrated by intolerant and abusive fundamentalist atheist UUs and perpetuated by far too many other DO nothing UUs. It's up to all UUs, except the UU fundamentalist atheist bigots of course. . .
: Look inside yourself and see where you hold self-righteous ideas about the world. Start there. Get rid of those thoughts that tell you that the ideas you value are somehow more "right" than the ideas others value.
Sorry but a good number the alleged self-righteous ideas that I value, including the purported principles and purposes and other ostensible ideals of UUism. . . are in fact somehow more "right" than some of the ideas others value.
: There is no way fundamentalism can exist if it has nothing to define itself against.
True enough.
Maybe that's precisely why so many bigoted fundamentalist atheists choose to attend Unitarian Universalist "churches" on any given Sunday, so that they may so easily and indeed so sleazily "define" themselves against bona fide God believing Unitarian Universalists.
Hi Emerson Avenger,
I completely agree with you in terms of the fundamentalist Atheism that takes place within UU. That's why we have been so hesitant about joining. (We've been involved with the church off and on for 4 years and just recently decided to join.)
Read the rest of what ms. squiggle said here -
http://mysticsquiggle.blogspot.com/2005/11/christian-philosophies-and-belief-in.html#comments
Here is what I posted to her blog -
Perhaps UU Christians, to say nothing of other UU theists of various sorts, should get together and DO something about the intolerant and outright bigoted fundamentalist atheists in oUUr midst. . .
There is clearly a split in the the way theists and fundamentalist atheists come at UU-anity as it were. . . The two groups, seem quite unable to reconcile their differences. Intolerant fundamentalist atheists tend to believe there is only one way to believe in God - their way. . .
Theists of all kinds hold *some* beliefs that are philosophically in line with those professed by atheists but evidently not when it comes to the question of God.
: (I've actually known Catholic Priests who claim they are not theists, and are therefore technically a-theists.)
And thus technically frauds. . .
I fully expect that a certain percentage of the clergy in all religions are closeted atheists. I think they should display some integrity and get out of the closet and out of the "church". UUism is one of he few "religions" where outspoken fundamentalist atheists can be out of the closet and in the "church" to say nothing of preside over the "church". . .
:Or like the Greek Orthodox thinking, they may consider all of nature to be divine and God to be completely unknowable.
God is actually very "knowable" and can in fact be "known" to a considerable degree via purely rational thought. Rational contemplation of readily observable reality leads to considerable knowledge of "Nature's God". . .
: Or like the early Roman Catholic Church, they may think God is completely knowable through Jesus.
Even Jesus claimed not to know everything "the Father" knows. Jesus never said anything about this for example. . .
: You have to explain what you mean by your belief in God.
I was trying to once but a certain unmentionable minister of the fundamentalist atheist "Humanist" UU variety contemptuously dismissed my beliefs about God as being nothing but "silliness and fantasy". He preached Sunday sermons declaring that God is a "non-existant being" and that belief in God "seems primitive". . . He quite literally wrote off most religious rituals as being "meaningless".
So how are 1.2 hundred thousand or so UUs supposed to unify all of their differing ideas in order to do something about the bigoted fundamentalist atheist UUs in their midst? Should not ALL God believing UUs, and indeed ALL genuinely "humanist" atheist UUs. . . actually DO something about atheistic fundamentalism which is a philosophy that cuts down ALL religions?
: Anywhere there is a group of people claiming that they hold the only right ideas about God (including ideas against the idea of God), there is fundamentalism.
Amen to that!
: It's just plain old self-righteousness and that shows up everywhere! It's a part of humanity, not just religion.
Amen again. Fundamentalist atheism certainly shows up all over the place within UUism. . .
: If you want something done, then do something.
I'm doing more than my fair share. . . Unfortunately most of the other UUs I know prefer to do nothing. . . What are you going to DO about "it" pray tell?
: Quit telling other people it's up to them, because it's not.
I strongly disagree. Actually other UUs do have a moral and ethical responsibility to respond in genuine responsibility to the internal injustices and abuses that are perpetrated by intolerant and abusive fundamentalist atheist UUs and perpetuated by far too many other DO nothing UUs. It's up to all UUs, except the UU fundamentalist atheist bigots of course. . .
: Look inside yourself and see where you hold self-righteous ideas about the world. Start there. Get rid of those thoughts that tell you that the ideas you value are somehow more "right" than the ideas others value.
Sorry but a good number the alleged self-righteous ideas that I value, including the purported principles and purposes and other ostensible ideals of UUism. . . are in fact somehow more "right" than some of the ideas others value.
: There is no way fundamentalism can exist if it has nothing to define itself against.
True enough.
Maybe that's precisely why so many bigoted fundamentalist atheists choose to attend Unitarian Universalist "churches" on any given Sunday, so that they may so easily and indeed so sleazily "define" themselves against bona fide God believing Unitarian Universalists.
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