A Pod's Eye View Of A "Humanist" U*U "Church". . .
As a result of trying to find some old Beliefnet posts by a certain obnoxious U*U denizen of Beliefnet (not that there aren't several other obnoxious U*Us that were, or still are, posting on Beliefnet) I came across comparatively recent evidence of the anti-Christian, or more broadly anti-religious, intolerance of fundamentalist atheist "Humanist" U*Us who may also be justifiably described as Atheist Supremacists. In a post titled 'Feeling Hostility' dated October 14, 2007 a Beliefnet member going by the handle pod had this to say about his "local UU church" -
I am not UU but have often considered becoming one. I have sometimes attended my local UU church. Frequently, the sermons involve disparaging remarks about other "denominations" (anything Christian).
A few months ago, the minister sermonized in support of the recent "militant atheist" books like Dawkins and Sam Harris. Most of the congregation laughed along with the minister's jokes about Christianity. When the minister embraced atheism, the congregation applauded.
Now I am not a Christian, but I am a theist. I felt a generalized hostility against any form of theism from the pulpit. It stopped me from attending, though I still contemplate becoming a Unitarian.
How do other theists out there deal with disparaging remarks from clergy regarding theism? The secular/humanist/atheist culture of my local church seemed pretty entrenched.
end quote
So it seems that nothing has changed in the U*U World in spite of the fact that I first exposed and denounced this kind of anti-religious intolerance that makes a total mockery of U*U principles over a decade ago and have yet to shut up about it.
In typical U*U fashion, the first U*U that chimes in suggests that pod should try looking for another U*U "church" or join the online "Church of the Larger Fellowship". DotNotInOz says-
Sounds as though this simply isn't a UU church that will meet your needs. The makeup of one UU church can be dramatically different from that of another.
If there is another church or fellowship within a reasonable distance, I'd suggest trying it. If not, you may find that the online UU Church of the Larger Fellowship, serving those who for whatever reason haven't a UU church or fellowship they can attend, is a good alternative.
end quote
No kidding DotNotInOZ. Not only will this "Humanist" dominated not meet the needs of pod, talk about U*U understatement of U*U intolerance and bigotry. . . but it will not meet the needs of any Christian-oriented or otherwise theistic person unless they are masochists who need to be disparaged and insulted by a U*U minister and U*U congregation on any given Sunday. . . As usual DotNotInOz effectively parrots the U*U mantra, "If you don't like it, why don't you leave?" There is not the slightest suggestion as to how pod might take steps to correct the situation that he or she described.
Thankfully the next commenter wiljoro says -
I'm thinking that you would do that congregation a favor by letting them know how it made you feel to hear their laughter.
I've known far too many who have walked away from UU Congregations because they too have felt uncomfortable with these kinds of disparaging remarks.
That behavior is not consistent with the UU Principles and Purposes.
end quote
So wiljoro correctly notes that the intolerant behavior that pod described is "not consistent with the UU Principles and Purposes", as I have been saying for over a decade now. . . and goes on to suggest that pod would be doing that congregation "a favor" by pointing out its anti-religious intolerance. I take note of the fact that wiljoro goes on to speak about having known "too many" other people who have "walked away from UU Congregations because they too have felt uncomfortable with these kinds of disparaging remarks." Once again what I have been saying for well over a decade is publicly validated by another U*U who speaks from first-hand experience and knowledge. I am convinced that one of the main reasons that Unitarian*Universalism is a "tiny, declining, fringe religion", as UUA Presidential candidate Rev. Peter Morales so aptly describes it, is because many Christian-oriented or otherwise God believing people are treated as second-class citizens, if not outright pariahs, in many U*U "Welcoming Congregations". This is by no means the first time that I have seen similar posts on Beliefnet. This type of post has been a regular occurrence in Beliefnet discussion forums for as long as Beliefnet has been in existence, or at least since I first became aware of Beliefnet years ago.
To her credit DotNotInOz comes back and says, "I agree that it's not the least bit in accord with UU Principles, etc." and goes on to relate how a U*U lay "service leader" "rather acidly" disparaged her own suggestions for positive change in her own U*U congregation. Indeed she quite rationally and reasonably says -
"So, I'm not so sure that a visitor's appearing to criticize/correct how a church operates will be the least bit welcome. A private chat with the minister would be the route I'd try if I were determined to make an issue of it, but I doubt that I would in this situation since the minister appears to have initiated much of the laughter."
So I guess her immediate suggestion that pod just "move on" or "walk away" was due mainly to her rational assessment of the utter futility of pod trying to convince these hypocritical "Humanist" U*Us to change their intolerant behavior that does in fact flagrantly disregard and outright violate several of the U*U Principles that this "Humanist" dominated U*U congregation "covenants" to "affirm and promote". . .
I am not UU but have often considered becoming one. I have sometimes attended my local UU church. Frequently, the sermons involve disparaging remarks about other "denominations" (anything Christian).
A few months ago, the minister sermonized in support of the recent "militant atheist" books like Dawkins and Sam Harris. Most of the congregation laughed along with the minister's jokes about Christianity. When the minister embraced atheism, the congregation applauded.
Now I am not a Christian, but I am a theist. I felt a generalized hostility against any form of theism from the pulpit. It stopped me from attending, though I still contemplate becoming a Unitarian.
How do other theists out there deal with disparaging remarks from clergy regarding theism? The secular/humanist/atheist culture of my local church seemed pretty entrenched.
end quote
So it seems that nothing has changed in the U*U World in spite of the fact that I first exposed and denounced this kind of anti-religious intolerance that makes a total mockery of U*U principles over a decade ago and have yet to shut up about it.
In typical U*U fashion, the first U*U that chimes in suggests that pod should try looking for another U*U "church" or join the online "Church of the Larger Fellowship". DotNotInOz says-
Sounds as though this simply isn't a UU church that will meet your needs. The makeup of one UU church can be dramatically different from that of another.
If there is another church or fellowship within a reasonable distance, I'd suggest trying it. If not, you may find that the online UU Church of the Larger Fellowship, serving those who for whatever reason haven't a UU church or fellowship they can attend, is a good alternative.
end quote
No kidding DotNotInOZ. Not only will this "Humanist" dominated not meet the needs of pod, talk about U*U understatement of U*U intolerance and bigotry. . . but it will not meet the needs of any Christian-oriented or otherwise theistic person unless they are masochists who need to be disparaged and insulted by a U*U minister and U*U congregation on any given Sunday. . . As usual DotNotInOz effectively parrots the U*U mantra, "If you don't like it, why don't you leave?" There is not the slightest suggestion as to how pod might take steps to correct the situation that he or she described.
Thankfully the next commenter wiljoro says -
I'm thinking that you would do that congregation a favor by letting them know how it made you feel to hear their laughter.
I've known far too many who have walked away from UU Congregations because they too have felt uncomfortable with these kinds of disparaging remarks.
That behavior is not consistent with the UU Principles and Purposes.
end quote
So wiljoro correctly notes that the intolerant behavior that pod described is "not consistent with the UU Principles and Purposes", as I have been saying for over a decade now. . . and goes on to suggest that pod would be doing that congregation "a favor" by pointing out its anti-religious intolerance. I take note of the fact that wiljoro goes on to speak about having known "too many" other people who have "walked away from UU Congregations because they too have felt uncomfortable with these kinds of disparaging remarks." Once again what I have been saying for well over a decade is publicly validated by another U*U who speaks from first-hand experience and knowledge. I am convinced that one of the main reasons that Unitarian*Universalism is a "tiny, declining, fringe religion", as UUA Presidential candidate Rev. Peter Morales so aptly describes it, is because many Christian-oriented or otherwise God believing people are treated as second-class citizens, if not outright pariahs, in many U*U "Welcoming Congregations". This is by no means the first time that I have seen similar posts on Beliefnet. This type of post has been a regular occurrence in Beliefnet discussion forums for as long as Beliefnet has been in existence, or at least since I first became aware of Beliefnet years ago.
To her credit DotNotInOz comes back and says, "I agree that it's not the least bit in accord with UU Principles, etc." and goes on to relate how a U*U lay "service leader" "rather acidly" disparaged her own suggestions for positive change in her own U*U congregation. Indeed she quite rationally and reasonably says -
"So, I'm not so sure that a visitor's appearing to criticize/correct how a church operates will be the least bit welcome. A private chat with the minister would be the route I'd try if I were determined to make an issue of it, but I doubt that I would in this situation since the minister appears to have initiated much of the laughter."
So I guess her immediate suggestion that pod just "move on" or "walk away" was due mainly to her rational assessment of the utter futility of pod trying to convince these hypocritical "Humanist" U*Us to change their intolerant behavior that does in fact flagrantly disregard and outright violate several of the U*U Principles that this "Humanist" dominated U*U congregation "covenants" to "affirm and promote". . .
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