Desmond Ravenstone's Chosen Fate Of "Diagnosing" aka Pathologizing The Emerson Avenger. . .
Yet another Unitarian*Universalist has chosen the dubious fate of diagnosing The Emerson Avenger with a mental illness or mental disability. This time it is Desmond Ravenstone aka Mr. U*U BDSM.
I have spoken in the past of the highly questionable proclivity of Unitarian*Universalist U*Us to "diagnose" people as suffering from mental illnesses of various kinds if they do not "think alike". . . Rev. Ray Drennan's "diagnosis" of me as "psychotic" because I am claiming a profound revelatory religious experience may be one of the best/worst examples of such pathologizing of "others" by U*Us, but I have seen too many other instances of U*Us accusing me or other people of being mentally ill just because we happen to say things that they just can't seem to wrap their small-minded brains around.
Well at least Desmond Ravenstone didn't label me as psychotic or insane or a crazy nutcase like Rev. Ray Drennan and other intolerant and abusive U*Us did, but he "diagnosed" me none-the-less. . . and in a rather questionable manner which is precisely why I have decided to publicly question Desmond Ravenstone's questionable *amateur* diagnosis that I am suffering from Asperger's Syndrome. Like Rev. Ray Drennan, Desmond Ravenstone did not simply politely suggest that I *might* be suffering from Asperger Syndrome or some other mental illness or mental disability and compassionately try to persuade me to seek an assessment from a mental health professional. No Desmond Ravenstone made it quite clear that he is all but utterly convinced that I am suffering from Asperger's Syndrome and the only thing that will convince him otherwise is if I. . .
"Consult with a specialist in Asperger's, be evaluated, and have a printed copy of the evaluation sent to me via Arlington Street Church in Boston."
This quite *prejudiced* U*U "bad attitude" very closely parallels Rev. Ray Drennan's very similar statement to the effect that he would do absolutely nothing to help ensure that my claimed revelatory religious experience was responsibly investigated by the U*U religious community until after I had been examined by a psychiatrist or psychologist and had obtained what might be described as a "certificate of sanity". For the record that statement by Rev. Ray Drennan preceded his attack on me in which he "diagnosed" me as "psychotic" by a month or so. It occurred in a meeting that I had with him in his office in the Unitarian Church of Montreal to discuss plans for Creation Day. This early sign of Rev. Ray Drennan's prejudicial belief that I was mentally ill is mentioned in my original letter of grievance against him as part and parcel of recording his "pattern of behavior". Needless to say that paragon of U*U integrity Rev. Raymond Drennan did absolutely nothing to help see to it that my revelatory religious experience was responsibly investigated even *after* I obtained a letter from a qualified psychiatrist attesting to the fact that he could find "no traces of psychoses" in me. . .
I would be the first to acknowledge that *some* of my writing style is "pedantic and verbose" if not "excessively rigid" as Desmond Ravenstone asserts in the email that he just sent me. In fact I waggishly did just that as recently as last night in a comment posted to the 'Atlas Farted' post on U*U blogger Toonhead's blog, but that is hardly a good reason for anyone to prejudicially and irresponsibly diagnose me as suffering from Asperger Syndrome aka Asperger's Disorder in a manner that follows the dubious principle of "guilty until proven innocent" that is quite shamefully held to by rather too many other suspicious-minded and outright prejudiced U*Us. . . Mr. U*U BDSM claims that I "come across as self-absorbed and unempathetic", not only because I dare to write about your's truly and my perceptions (what a crime), but because I "appear unaware of how (my) harassment and tone affects others." He loses on both counts because A) I am quite empathetic when there is good reason to feel and share empathy for others. I dare say that I feel plenty of empathy for other victims of U*U injustices and abuses just for starters. . . and B) I am perfectly aware of how (my) alleged harassment and tone affects others. My calculated "tone" on The Emerson Avenger blog and elsewhere in the U*U blogosphere affects others pretty much how I want it to affect others. BTW Those "others" include no shortage of non U*Us who find the "tone" of The Emerson Avenger blog to be not only highly appropriate but quite entertaining as well. . .
So Mr. Ravenstone do not expect me to waste any of my time seeking a certificate from any mental health professional certifying that I am not suffering from Asperger's Disorder. In future you might want to pay heed to and follow your own advice when communicating with me either publicly or privately -
"The right to speak one's mind needs to be balanced with the responsibility to make sure one has the facts straight, to temper one's words with respect, to persuade rather than bludgeon, and so forth."
You failed to make sure that you had the facts about me straight. Dismissing my legitimate criticism of U*U injustices and abuses as "rants" is hardly tempering your words with respect. Demanding that I must obtain a certificate from a mental health specialist proving that I am not suffering from Asperger's Syndrome and forward a copy of it to you care of the Arlington Street Church in Boston before you will "engage" in "conversation" with me again comes across as bludgeoning more than persuasion. . .
I will continue to follow *my* advice which, in short, is -
If you want to be respected, be respectable. . .
I have spoken in the past of the highly questionable proclivity of Unitarian*Universalist U*Us to "diagnose" people as suffering from mental illnesses of various kinds if they do not "think alike". . . Rev. Ray Drennan's "diagnosis" of me as "psychotic" because I am claiming a profound revelatory religious experience may be one of the best/worst examples of such pathologizing of "others" by U*Us, but I have seen too many other instances of U*Us accusing me or other people of being mentally ill just because we happen to say things that they just can't seem to wrap their small-minded brains around.
Well at least Desmond Ravenstone didn't label me as psychotic or insane or a crazy nutcase like Rev. Ray Drennan and other intolerant and abusive U*Us did, but he "diagnosed" me none-the-less. . . and in a rather questionable manner which is precisely why I have decided to publicly question Desmond Ravenstone's questionable *amateur* diagnosis that I am suffering from Asperger's Syndrome. Like Rev. Ray Drennan, Desmond Ravenstone did not simply politely suggest that I *might* be suffering from Asperger Syndrome or some other mental illness or mental disability and compassionately try to persuade me to seek an assessment from a mental health professional. No Desmond Ravenstone made it quite clear that he is all but utterly convinced that I am suffering from Asperger's Syndrome and the only thing that will convince him otherwise is if I. . .
"Consult with a specialist in Asperger's, be evaluated, and have a printed copy of the evaluation sent to me via Arlington Street Church in Boston."
This quite *prejudiced* U*U "bad attitude" very closely parallels Rev. Ray Drennan's very similar statement to the effect that he would do absolutely nothing to help ensure that my claimed revelatory religious experience was responsibly investigated by the U*U religious community until after I had been examined by a psychiatrist or psychologist and had obtained what might be described as a "certificate of sanity". For the record that statement by Rev. Ray Drennan preceded his attack on me in which he "diagnosed" me as "psychotic" by a month or so. It occurred in a meeting that I had with him in his office in the Unitarian Church of Montreal to discuss plans for Creation Day. This early sign of Rev. Ray Drennan's prejudicial belief that I was mentally ill is mentioned in my original letter of grievance against him as part and parcel of recording his "pattern of behavior". Needless to say that paragon of U*U integrity Rev. Raymond Drennan did absolutely nothing to help see to it that my revelatory religious experience was responsibly investigated even *after* I obtained a letter from a qualified psychiatrist attesting to the fact that he could find "no traces of psychoses" in me. . .
I would be the first to acknowledge that *some* of my writing style is "pedantic and verbose" if not "excessively rigid" as Desmond Ravenstone asserts in the email that he just sent me. In fact I waggishly did just that as recently as last night in a comment posted to the 'Atlas Farted' post on U*U blogger Toonhead's blog, but that is hardly a good reason for anyone to prejudicially and irresponsibly diagnose me as suffering from Asperger Syndrome aka Asperger's Disorder in a manner that follows the dubious principle of "guilty until proven innocent" that is quite shamefully held to by rather too many other suspicious-minded and outright prejudiced U*Us. . . Mr. U*U BDSM claims that I "come across as self-absorbed and unempathetic", not only because I dare to write about your's truly and my perceptions (what a crime), but because I "appear unaware of how (my) harassment and tone affects others." He loses on both counts because A) I am quite empathetic when there is good reason to feel and share empathy for others. I dare say that I feel plenty of empathy for other victims of U*U injustices and abuses just for starters. . . and B) I am perfectly aware of how (my) alleged harassment and tone affects others. My calculated "tone" on The Emerson Avenger blog and elsewhere in the U*U blogosphere affects others pretty much how I want it to affect others. BTW Those "others" include no shortage of non U*Us who find the "tone" of The Emerson Avenger blog to be not only highly appropriate but quite entertaining as well. . .
So Mr. Ravenstone do not expect me to waste any of my time seeking a certificate from any mental health professional certifying that I am not suffering from Asperger's Disorder. In future you might want to pay heed to and follow your own advice when communicating with me either publicly or privately -
"The right to speak one's mind needs to be balanced with the responsibility to make sure one has the facts straight, to temper one's words with respect, to persuade rather than bludgeon, and so forth."
You failed to make sure that you had the facts about me straight. Dismissing my legitimate criticism of U*U injustices and abuses as "rants" is hardly tempering your words with respect. Demanding that I must obtain a certificate from a mental health specialist proving that I am not suffering from Asperger's Syndrome and forward a copy of it to you care of the Arlington Street Church in Boston before you will "engage" in "conversation" with me again comes across as bludgeoning more than persuasion. . .
I will continue to follow *my* advice which, in short, is -
If you want to be respected, be respectable. . .
Comments
My brother timmy writes so much like you do, he shows what doctors call perseveration. timmy also get so focused on his interests, he comes across as rude and out of touch with people, seems to be so blunt that he doesn’t realize he’s insulting people, and then gets real defensive saying, ‘well if they didn’t treat me like a freak’
i am seeing a lot of timmy in your writing. he has an obsession with animal rights issues and sometimes gets overly obnoxious when people do not agree with him one hundred percent, sometimes calling them ‘anthropocentric nazis’.
i am so grateful he was diagnosed seven months ago, and finally get some good guidance from professionals to help him and the family. his case is moderate to severe, he needs intensive behaviour therapy and often resists, but he has already made more progress in the past few months than ever.
so i would urge you to see a specialist and be checked out. if this guy is wrong, then he is wrong and you move on. if he is right tho, and i think he is, saying so as the family member of an asperger person, you could benefit from the help.
Sounds to me like your conflict with Unitarian Church of Montreal comes from their neurotypical prejudice and ignorance. But if neither of you are aware of this, how can you move past the conflict? At least if you get the facts, you will be able to shift the thinking and conversation. But first you need to change YOUR thinking about Asperger’s and other forms of neurodivergence.
One of the things families of people with Apserger and other ASD face is when family members are diagnosed late in life. They often resist it, insisting that the problem is with other people, not them. This is understandable, because many Asperger people can be very intelligent and logical. It is social interactions, reading facial expressions and vocal tone which is the shortcoming, because of the “wiring” of Aspegrer.
I cannot say for certain whether you have Asperger, but like Jenny I do not see the harm in getting it checked out. If you have had this conflict for so long, and have such a hard time interacting with people (you seem to run into so many confrontations with so many people in the Unitarians) then this deserves consideration.
Aspergians write and talk in very peculiar ways. I can see it clearly in your writing here, and also found your Youtube site and listened to you speak on the videos.
Yeah you need an evaluation. I think your ONE OF US
:Aspergians write and talk in very peculiar ways. I can see it clearly in your writing here, and also found your Youtube site and listened to you speak on the videos.
As I said, my writing here is not necessarily typical of my other writing. I am can be somewhat "long-winded" and verbose, and freely acknowledge that, but The Emerson Avenger blog and much of my other online writing is especially verbose because I deliberately load what I am writing with keywords get high rankings in Google searches to attract readers. How do you suppose you and other people concerned about Asperger's ended up here?
:Yeah you need an evaluation. I think your ONE OF US
I can see how you might come to that conclusion based on believing that The Emerson Avenger is the "real me" but The Emerson Avenger is largely a "persona" aka an *act*. In fact, the arrogance and in your face obnoxiousness of The Emerson Avenger actually reflects the arrogance and obnoxiousness that I have encountered amongst Unitarian*Universalists including too many U*U ministers who are aloof, arrogant or lacking empathy.
The Emerson Avenger is something of a "persona" aka an "act" and is often quite deliberately rude and "in your face" offensive because Unitarian*Universalists allow Unitarian*Universalist ministers to be very rude and offensive, to say nothing of intolerant and outright bigoted. . . towards me and other people (including whole groups of people such as Christians and other theists and Republicans for example) with complete impunity. It is simply not a good idea for *anyone* to "diagnose" a person with a mental illness or other mental disability on the basis of what they post to the internet. In fact, people who are not mental health professional's should not be "diagnosing" anyone at all, especially in a way that seeks to demonize the person that they are diagnosing which is exactly what many Unitarian*Universalists are doing when they maliciously "diagnose" me and other people as suffering from as "personality disorder" or being "mentally unbalanced" or even being a "crazy" "psychotic" "nutcase". . . I do not believe that Desmond Ravenstone was being outright malicious in this manner when he "diagnosed" me as suffering from Asperger Syndrome aka Asperger's Disorder but he was quite arrogant in his demand that I absolutely *must* "be evaluated" by "a specialist in Asperger's" and send a printed copy of that "evaluation" to him before he would even talk with me. . .
I do not have "an obsession" with clergy misconduct issues or other Unitarian*Universalist injustices, abuses and hypocrisy. I am simply dedicated and persistent in pursuing these issues due in no small measure to the fact that U*U are quite "obsessive" in their obstinate refusal to responsibly acknowledge the injustices and abuses that they are clearly guilty of directly perpetrating or indirectly perpetuating.
The Emerson Avenger is knowingly and willfully rude and offensive to hypocritical U*Us because U*Us allow U*U ministers to be extremely rude and offensive to me and other people with complete impunity but in general I am quite polite and civil with people. Believing me, when I am insulting people I *know* what I am doing. . . unlike someone with who is quite oblivious to the fact that they are insulting people. Unlike your brother Tommy I get along quite well with *most* people who disagree with me, even people who quite vehemently disagree with me, as long as they are reasonably civil and respectful in their disagreement. In fact, even when other people are quite rude I usually under-react rather than over-react. I have much better control over my emotions than most other people. I do not get angry easily and even when I do get angry I often do not display anger. The only time I suggest that people may be Nazis is when there is some very good reason to do so. . .
So thank you for your expressing your concern in a compassionate manner but, whereas The Emerson Avenger may indeed display some symptoms that *could* be interpreted in a way that suggests he suffers from Asperger's Syndrome, or some other mental illness or mental disability, the real person typing away here does not. If I did display symptoms of mental illness you can be quite sure that my friends and family and/or people I work with would have said so by now. BTW Did I forget to mention that I deliberately feign a certain amount of craziness or "insanity" from time to time just to take the piss out of those U*U hypocrites who maliciously pathologize me and other people?
Dear JonRob,
I fully expected people with Asperger’s to find this blog post and did not mean to offend them. I do not know what term you want to use to describe Asperger's but I think that it is fair to say that it is a form of "mental disability" which is how I characterized it. If that issue got somewhat confused because I am writing about the fact that too many Unitarian*Universalists seem to love to pathogize people who do not "think alike" by suggesting that they are suffering from a "personality disorder" or otherwise mentally ill, to say nothing of "crazy" "psychotic" "nutcases" I apologize. I did not mean to confuse the issue but I see Desmond Ravenstone's arrogant "diagnosing" of me as suffering from Asperger's as being part and parcel of that rather ugly "big picture".
:Asperger’s is a difference in neurology and perception, not a handicap or disorder.
With all due respect JonRob I suggest that you pass that personal opinion on to those mental health professionals who clearly describe Asperger's as a disorder. I am only using standard terminology in this blog post and did not mean to insult or demean people with Asperger's at all when I said -
"Like Rev. Ray Drennan, Desmond Ravenstone did not simply politely suggest that I *might* be suffering from Asperger Syndrome or some other mental illness or mental disability and compassionately try to persuade me to seek an assessment from a mental health professional."
I have been previously "diagnosed" as "psychotic" by Rev. Ray Drennan of the Unitarian Church of Montreal, and otherwise pathologized as suffering from "a personality disorder" and even a "crazy" "nutcase" by other Unitarian*Universalists which is why I spoke of "some *other* mental illness or mental disability". That being said, it seems to me that pretty much *any* debilitating "difference in neurology and perception" can be reasonably described as a handicap or disorder or indeed a mental disability.
I hear you JonRob. *My* initial problem came when die-hard "fundamentalist atheist" Humanist U*Us did not understand me. . .
:Sounds to me like your conflict with Unitarian Church of Montreal comes from their neurotypical prejudice and ignorance.
Indeed that is a fair assessment JonRob. My conflict with Unitarian Church of Montreal, the UUA, and other Unitarian*Universalists certainly comes from their various forms of prejudice and ignorance which may indeed include some "neurotypical prejudice and ignorance." This blog post is all about the disturbing proclivity of Unitarian*Universalists to pretend that people who they do not understand and disagree with are suffering from some kind of mental illness or other mental disability. Perhaps as an Asperger's advocate you could offer to enlighten your local Unitarian church if there is one in your area.
:But if neither of you are aware of this, how can you move past the conflict?
I am acutely aware of most if not all of the various forms of prejudice and ignorance that fuel this conflict JonRob but Montreal Unitarians, the UUA, and a whole lot of other Unitarian*Universalists are either not aware of their own prejudice and ignorance or are in fact aware of their own prejudice and ignorance but cannot bring themselves to admit it. . .
:At least if you get the facts, you will be able to shift the thinking and conversation. But first you need to change YOUR thinking about Asperger’s and other forms of neurodivergence.
I will make a point of more thoroughly reading the various websites about Asperger's that I linked to in this blog post for the purpose of educating U*Us and anyone else who reads it about Asperger's. If you read what I actually posted I generally referred to it as Asperger's Sydrome except where I linked to a website that describes Asperger's as Asperger's Disorder. I myself did not pass any judgment on people who have Asperger's. For the record I have in the past worked in a half-way house for psychiatric outpatients who suffer from serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia. I do not have a "bad attitude" towards people who suffer from various mental illnesses or mental disabilities etc. It is Desmond Ravenstone who seems to have a bit of problem dealing with people who he believes suffer from Asperger's Syndrome but, to be fair, he at least acknowledged that -
Asperger's is not "insanity" any more than dyslexia is "stupidity."
in his email to me.
The fact remains that he clearly attempted to coerce me into "being evaluated" by refusing to communicate with my until I complied with his demand that I must -
"Consult with a specialist in Asperger's, be evaluated, and have a printed copy of the evaluation sent to me via Arlington Street Church in Boston."
Nuff' said?
"Most people who know me personally and know about The Emerson Avenger blog believe that I am quite sane"
That assertion needs to be understood in the context that intolerant and abusive U*Us have repeatedly characterized me as insane, not only "psychotic" but "psycho" as in "psycho killer". . . The malicious demonization that I have been subjected to by intolerant and abusive Unitarian*Universalist U*Us goes well beyond Desmond Ravenstone's "diagnosis" of me as suffering from Asperger's Syndrome. One Montreal Unitarian U*U made a written deposition to the Montreal police force (a couple of years ago now. . .) to the effect that I represent an "imminent threat" of entering the Unitarian Church of Montreal with a firearm and blowing away a bunch of Montreal Unitarians à la Jim David Adkisson. . . In fact, as far as such U*U "diagnoses" of mental illness or mental disability go. . . it is one of the least harmful and damaging ones, which does not mean to say that it is not harmful and damaging at all.
Best,
Richard
Richard P. Milner
Public Affairs Media, Inc.
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I would urge you to embrace your neuro-diversity. But it is difficult, because officially, we don't exist.
The hordes of psychological "experts" who regularly comment on the supposed near-impossibility of productive, independent lives and successful marriages among autistics, and in so doing blithely consign thousands of children to society's trash heap with every keystroke, haven't yet noticed that we're here.
That's because, after more than a half-century in hiding, we're pretty good at staying out of the experts' way. We raise our children in quiet, secluded environments where their differences can often go unnoticed, just as our parents did when they were raising and protecting us. We enroll our children in small private schools or educate them at home. When they need counseling or speech therapy, we pay in cash, to ensure that no record of any neurological differences gets into the health insurance database. And we never mention the word "autism" in front of our children.
We are likely to choose careers in which we can work with computers or in laboratories, thus minimizing our social interaction and the ever-present risk of employment discrimination. We are not protected under the equal employment opportunity laws, and finding new jobs can often be difficult, no matter how excellent our references, just because interviewers think that we look or sound "weird." Some of us have found it easier to work as independent contractors or to start small businesses.
How many of us are there? Thousands? Millions? No one knows.
We seek out others like ourselves, tentatively, in the safe anonymity of Internet bulletin boards, taking the first small steps toward the creation of a fledgling autistic culture and community. A new word emerges from the discourse: "neurodiversity." We dare to dream that, some day, we will be able to come out of our dusty closets and be accepted as intelligent, healthy people within the normal range of human variation.
But until then… we, and our children, remain in hiding.
As should be clear from the content of this blog and other evidence available online, I do embrace my "neuro-diversity" as you put it. That being said, I am quite sure that my own "neuro-diversity", whatever it may be, does not fall into the categories "crazy" "psychotic" "nutcase" or even Asperger's Syndrome. Unitarian*Universalists have a very bad habit of suggesting that those people who they disagree with are mentally ill. Too many U*Us have used the above terms to try to marginalize me and pretend that what I am saying is not credible. I agree that the "diagnosing" aka pathologizing of those who do not "think alike" is not exclusive to Unitarian*Universalists, the problem exists in society at large, but in my experience Unitarian*Universalists are rather more inclined towards such behavior than the average person. Why this is so I am not sure but I have a hunch or two that I will keep to myself for now.
Regards,
Robin Edgar
"CHURCH" OF THE "PSYCHOTIC" REACTION
This picket sign slogan quite obviously directly protests against the fact that the Unitarian Church of Montreal and indeed the UUA negligently and complicitly condoned Rev. Ray Drennan's "diagnosis" that my revelatory religious experience was a "psychotic experience" but it also suggests that Unitarian*Universalists are just a tad delusional in doing so. . .
I finally made the decision that my values did not fit into ASC or UU's and left. I can completely understand your feeling traumatized by UU ism and it leadership. What I saw now that I look back is quite unbelievable for a church--and so sad. My advice to you is to move on and find you own peace.
What strikes me most about many of the Unitarian*Universalists involved this conflict is their apparent lack of conscience. They seem to be totally shameless. I have various reasons for fighting the good fight for some time yet, and I am somewhat hopeful that some real progress may be made in the coming months, but the day may well come when I take your advice. I may comment again later but I would be interested if you could provide a bit more detail about what you have related here. I would be interested in knowing more about why you decided that not only the Arlington Street Church was not for you, but why you rejected Unitarian*Universalism more generally.
BTW As far as Desmond Ravenstone's mental health goes, I am increasingly of the opinion that those U*Us who pathologize others tend to be mentally ill themselves. . . A couple of cases in point -
One U*U minister who labeled me as "crazy" has been diagnosed with Panic Axiety Disorder. Another U*U minister who tried to portray me as dangerously deranged has a pathological fear of flying. I expect there are more like that. . .
Regards,
Robin Edgar
"Does he know you?"
Good question eh?